Interview
Tab Ramos Talks U-23, Player Development & MLS
American Soccer Now's Brooke Tunstall spoke with Tab Ramos about the U.S. Under-23 team's victory over the Bahamas last week, a variety of player development issues, and the even Landon Donovan.
TAB RAMOS wears many hats for U.S. Soccer. The Hall of Fame midfielder, a veteran of three World Cups as a player, is head coach of the U.S. Under-20 national team, the technical director of U.S. youth soccer, and was recently an assistant coach for the U.S. national team in the World Cup.
He’s also helping prepare the current U.S. Under-23 pool (players born on or after after January 1, 1993), which will attempt to qualify for the 2016 Olympics. Last week the U-23s played a friendly in the Bahamas, a 5-1 win, after which Ramos agreed to speak with American Soccer Now about the camp in Nassau, the U-23 pool in general, as well as answering several questions about the state of player development—especially as it pertains to pro soccer, in the United States.
AMERICAN SOCCER NOW: Can you take us through the Bahamas camp? Were there players you wanted to bring in but couldn’t because of club commitments?
Tab Ramos: Oh yeah, several. We had players in Europe we didn’t call. Some players didn’t get released by their clubs, some who might be hurt. Then at the last minute MLS added a homegrown game (as part of the All-Star festivities) and four players we wanted to call in were part of that. And then the Saturday night before we left for the camp Marlon Hairston got hurt playing for Colorado and we had to replace him with Dan Metzger, from Maryland. And (goalkeeper) Zack Steffen picked up a knock in practice the week before so we had to replace him with (New York Red Bulls) Santiago Castano. It wasn’t even till Sunday that we got a definitive roster.
The good news was this gave us a chance to look at some players that maybe we hadn’t seen before or seen in a while, bring them back in, and see where they’re at. But there were a lot of players we wanted to see that we couldn’t bring in too.
ASN: You arrived on Sunday evening and the game was that Wednesday; how much practice time did you have?
Ramos: We only had three training sessions and one of them was basically stretching and running. So there really wasn’t a lot of time together. And it’s not easy to come together to be able to play as a team, but I thought a lot of these guys know each other from the U-20s or other (youth national team) camps so they came together pretty well.
ASN: And then the game, was this an age-specific Bahamas team and what was the club level of most of their lineup?
Ramos: This was their full team but we knew practically nothing about them (beforehand). We tried to do research on their players but we didn’t even get a roster till the day before the game when it was posted on their (national federation’s) website… Some players play pro in Jamaica, some play in college (in the U.S.), and some play on teams in the local island league.
ASN: What were your objectives in terms of executing a game plan and evaluating the players?
Ramos: Any time you get a chance to play a game against another national team, especially on the road, it’s good for players at this level, no matter what the (level of) the opposition is. Obviously Bahamas isn’t the stiffest test but they played hard and our guys had to work hard to get the result. What we wanted was mostly to evaluate where the guys were, see maybe some new faces, and get some guys some playing time together because there really aren’t too many chances for that. This was more about us then the other team.
We’re still a year-and-a-half from qualifying for the Olympics. It’s important to build the pool so everyone, whoever you call in, is ready and knows how to play the way we want them to.
ASN: Which players did you feel really stood out?
Ramos: As far as standing out, everyone played pretty well in general. In terms of a evaluating, it’s hard to do that in a game that didn’t go back and forth that much. We played most of the game in their (attacking) end. There weren’t many performances where you said, ‘That guy really stood out above someone else,’ because everyone basically played pretty well but that was probably because of the (level) of the opposition. But it was good to see Dennis Flores. We hadn’t seen him before and didn’t know what he could bring. He was quick on the ball, skillful, scored a goal. He was a pleasant surprise.
ASN: Obviously Birmingham centerback Will Packwood was a huge loss for the U-20 team last cycle. What does he bring to the team now that he’s fit, and can you also talk about his commitment to the program in terms of missing first-team training in Birmingham to be part of this camp?
Ramos: We had an agreement with his club that he’d only play 45 minutes. It was important to have him with us for this game, to be part of the program again, especially because he’s not just part of this but being considered for the first team with Jurgen (Klinsmann). He’s hopefully a big part of where we’re going so a player like that we want to get him any international game we can get in. He did very well. He started the first and half and I don’t think we gave up any chances when he was in the game.
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ASN: What’s next for the U-23s? Also, will the team be playing in the Pan-Am Games next year?
Ramos: I don’t know. We’re looking at the possibility of something for the FIFA dates in October but anything moving forward I haven’t spoken about with Jurgen.
ASN: Of the players called into the U-23s so far, only Steffen and Castano are currently eligible for the U-20 team. For the most part, will you be waiting till after the U-20 WC next year to incorporate the 20s into the 23s or will we start seeing more of that in the next year?
Ramos: I think that waiting till after the U-20 World Cup would be pretty much how it goes. It’s difficult enough to get players released for U-20 camps and the most important thing for those players is qualifying, which will be in January, and getting ready for that. And then, hopefully, preparing for the World Cup. We already have a hard time getting them released for one team and if we have too many camps and teams for them to be called into it becomes too hard to get players released.
ASN: Will you be the head coach for Olympic qualifying?
Ramos: I’m just helping keeping the team together right now. It’s a group I know well but that decision won’t be made for at least another six months, I think. But I can’t see me doing it. I’m the under-20 national team coach. I’m U.S. Soccer’s youth technical director and I help (as an assistant coach) with the senior team. There’s only so many things I can do, only so much time. Plus (as a father of three) I have a team at home… As for who (the U-23 coach will eventually be), at this point we don’t know. I assume Jurgen will make that decision but we haven't at this time.
ASN: What’s your takeaway from being on the World Cup staff in Brazil in terms of American soccer and what the youth national teams need to do to create better players?
Ramos: I think it shows we’re on our way. We saw the effects of the developmental academy as this was the first time there was a player just coming through from the academy to the World Cup (DeAndre Yedlin). But we need more players coming through for it to make a bigger impact. I think it shows the newer, younger players in this country are getting better and getting exposed to a better system.
Look at the current Under-17 national team. That’s a great team, and maybe the one team that we can look at and say, ‘Wow, the new players are really getting better and have a whole lot of talent.’ Hopefully groups that follow them are just as good but it’s not always like that. In terms of a particular age group having more talent, sometimes it’s just a group that is more talented than others and not reflective of something we’re doing with development.
ASN: You and Jurgen and lots of people that have come before you have made it clear how important it is for more of the top players to turn pro earlier, but MLS seems to limit the players like that it lets turn pro. Would you like to see MLS open the draft to any underclassmen or high school kid who wishes to declare for it?
Ramos: We do like when the best players in this country turn pro early. Being in a professional environment is the best thing for their development at 18, 19, 20, 21. At the same time, I think we’re making a lot of progress in that direction. I mean, for the U-20 team, I’m taking a team to Argentina next month and the roster I’ve put together (that hasn’t been announced yet), I think there’s maybe two college players on it and one (current) high school player and the rest are pro players. I think that’s a good sign that so many players at that age are already pros.
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As for the draft, absolutely, I’d like to see it open to anyone who wants to be drafted and is good enough. I don’t see why that wouldn’t be the case, really. It seems to me a team should be able to draft anyone they want to draft who wants to be drafted. That will put more pressure on the MLS clubs to do their homework, both with developmental academies and scouting players who aren’t in their academies, so they know who the best players are at all times and then that gets them in at an earlier age playing this game for a living, playing against people who are playing it for a living, who have families to support, who treat the game as a job. That’s how you get better. We need as many players doing that as possible.
Generation Adidas and before that Project 40, they've done OK. But a lot of times the Generation Adidias players (that MLS signs) don’t coincide with players who the national team staff thinks should be signed. Sometimes we get surprised at who is signed and don’t know how that process works and wonder why they signed that player.
ASN: There is now a formal, actual push by Division I college coaches to extend the men’s season so that there are more games and practices and more time between games. Is this enough of a change that it reduces the importance of getting more of the top players into a professional system sooner?
Ramos: Well, look, if there’s a way for them to be training all year round, that’s positive, a step in the right direction. Some kids are just not ready to turn pro even if we want them to and it’s important for them to get a year or two in college before turning pro. If they get that year or two of college and are able to grow physically and emotionally so they’re more ready when they do turn pro, that’s a good thing.
But the way I read the proposal, it’s really still not enough games. The fall season is still too short and then there’s a long gap of no games before the spring. But if they can get past the first obstacle, of just getting (the NCAA) to going to a longer calendar and having games all year round, that’s a big step in the right direction and then maybe adding more games down the road to the schedule won’t be so hard. I hope it works. But in terms of replacing (the option) of going pro, one thing doesn’t have to do with the other.
EDITORS NOTE: Under the proposed change, which is just for Division I men’s soccer, the current college season—18 regular season games played in the fall followed by the postseason—would shift to 13 games between the start of the fall season and Thanksgiving with the season restarting in March with nine more games before having conference and NCAA Tournament games in the spring.
ASN: What is your take on the Los Angeles Galaxy adding a second division team in USL-Pro and MLS teams reportedly following suit next year?
Ramos: It’s great. Of all the thing we’ve spoken about in terms of changes (for player development), this is THE most important and numbers one step that MLS has taken. I think having a second team play in second division type league is excellent. It gets younger players consistently getting games and getting exposed playing against pros but still being part of their own pro system under their coaches who have an interest in developing them. It’s probably the best step in player development we’ve taken in years and I really hope it continues. I’ve heard that going into next season almost half the (MLS) teams are moving in that direction and I really hope it happens. It benefits our youth national team and it will benefit our senior team. You call in a younger player—U-18, U-20, U-23—and he’s so much more experienced and he develops faster and he’s readier to play at a higher level at an earlier age. The Galaxy are doing a great job and I really hope all the other teams follow suit.
ASN: Finally, what are your thoughts on Landon Donovan’s retirement and his impact on American soccer?
Ramos: For me, Landon Donovan is the best American player that ever played and the player that has made the most contributions to U.S. Soccer—on the field and off the field. Above and beyond that, he is a great human being and teammate, and a great player. I wouldn’t have enough words on the amazing influence he’s had.
Brooke Tunstall is an American Soccer Now contributing editor and ASN 100 panelist. You can follow him on Twitter.
Ramos: As far as standing out, everyone played pretty well in general. In terms of a evaluating, it’s hard to do that in a game that didn’t go back and forth that much. We played most of the game in their (attacking) end. There weren’t many performances where you said, ‘That guy really stood out above someone else,’ because everyone basically played pretty well but that was probably because of the (level) of the opposition. But it was good to see Dennis Flores. We hadn’t seen him before and didn’t know what he could bring. He was quick on the ball, skillful, scored a goal. He was a pleasant surprise.
ASN: Obviously Birmingham centerback Will Packwood was a huge loss for the U-20 team last cycle. What does he bring to the team now that he’s fit, and can you also talk about his commitment to the program in terms of missing first-team training in Birmingham to be part of this camp?
Ramos: We had an agreement with his club that he’d only play 45 minutes. It was important to have him with us for this game, to be part of the program again, especially because he’s not just part of this but being considered for the first team with Jurgen (Klinsmann). He’s hopefully a big part of where we’re going so a player like that we want to get him any international game we can get in. He did very well. He started the first and half and I don’t think we gave up any chances when he was in the game.
ASN: What’s next for the U-23s? Also, will the team be playing in the Pan-Am Games next year?
Ramos: I don’t know. We’re looking at the possibility of something for the FIFA dates in October but anything moving forward I haven’t spoken about with Jurgen.
ASN: Of the players called into the U-23s so far, only Steffen and Castano are currently eligible for the U-20 team. For the most part, will you be waiting till after the U-20 WC next year to incorporate the 20s into the 23s or will we start seeing more of that in the next year?
Ramos: I think that waiting till after the U-20 World Cup would be pretty much how it goes. It’s difficult enough to get players released for U-20 camps and the most important thing for those players is qualifying, which will be in January, and getting ready for that. And then, hopefully, preparing for the World Cup. We already have a hard time getting them released for one team and if we have too many camps and teams for them to be called into it becomes too hard to get players released.
ASN: Will you be the head coach for Olympic qualifying?
Ramos: I’m just helping keeping the team together right now. It’s a group I know well but that decision won’t be made for at least another six months, I think. But I can’t see me doing it. I’m the under-20 national team coach. I’m U.S. Soccer’s youth technical director and I help (as an assistant coach) with the senior team. There’s only so many things I can do, only so much time. Plus (as a father of three) I have a team at home… As for who (the U-23 coach will eventually be), at this point we don’t know. I assume Jurgen will make that decision but we haven't at this time.
ASN: What’s your takeaway from being on the World Cup staff in Brazil in terms of American soccer and what the youth national teams need to do to create better players?
Ramos: I think it shows we’re on our way. We saw the effects of the developmental academy as this was the first time there was a player just coming through from the academy to the World Cup (DeAndre Yedlin). But we need more players coming through for it to make a bigger impact. I think it shows the newer, younger players in this country are getting better and getting exposed to a better system.
Look at the current Under-17 national team. That’s a great team, and maybe the one team that we can look at and say, ‘Wow, the new players are really getting better and have a whole lot of talent.’ Hopefully groups that follow them are just as good but it’s not always like that. In terms of a particular age group having more talent, sometimes it’s just a group that is more talented than others and not reflective of something we’re doing with development.
ASN: You and Jurgen and lots of people that have come before you have made it clear how important it is for more of the top players to turn pro earlier, but MLS seems to limit the players like that it lets turn pro. Would you like to see MLS open the draft to any underclassmen or high school kid who wishes to declare for it?
Ramos: We do like when the best players in this country turn pro early. Being in a professional environment is the best thing for their development at 18, 19, 20, 21. At the same time, I think we’re making a lot of progress in that direction. I mean, for the U-20 team, I’m taking a team to Argentina next month and the roster I’ve put together (that hasn’t been announced yet), I think there’s maybe two college players on it and one (current) high school player and the rest are pro players. I think that’s a good sign that so many players at that age are already pros.
As for the draft, absolutely, I’d like to see it open to anyone who wants to be drafted and is good enough. I don’t see why that wouldn’t be the case, really. It seems to me a team should be able to draft anyone they want to draft who wants to be drafted. That will put more pressure on the MLS clubs to do their homework, both with developmental academies and scouting players who aren’t in their academies, so they know who the best players are at all times and then that gets them in at an earlier age playing this game for a living, playing against people who are playing it for a living, who have families to support, who treat the game as a job. That’s how you get better. We need as many players doing that as possible.
Generation Adidas and before that Project 40, they've done OK. But a lot of times the Generation Adidias players (that MLS signs) don’t coincide with players who the national team staff thinks should be signed. Sometimes we get surprised at who is signed and don’t know how that process works and wonder why they signed that player.
ASN: There is now a formal, actual push by Division I college coaches to extend the men’s season so that there are more games and practices and more time between games. Is this enough of a change that it reduces the importance of getting more of the top players into a professional system sooner?
Ramos: Well, look, if there’s a way for them to be training all year round, that’s positive, a step in the right direction. Some kids are just not ready to turn pro even if we want them to and it’s important for them to get a year or two in college before turning pro. If they get that year or two of college and are able to grow physically and emotionally so they’re more ready when they do turn pro, that’s a good thing.
But the way I read the proposal, it’s really still not enough games. The fall season is still too short and then there’s a long gap of no games before the spring. But if they can get past the first obstacle, of just getting (the NCAA) to going to a longer calendar and having games all year round, that’s a big step in the right direction and then maybe adding more games down the road to the schedule won’t be so hard. I hope it works. But in terms of replacing (the option) of going pro, one thing doesn’t have to do with the other.
EDITORS NOTE: Under the proposed change, which is just for Division I men’s soccer, the current college season—18 regular season games played in the fall followed by the postseason—would shift to 13 games between the start of the fall season and Thanksgiving with the season restarting in March with nine more games before having conference and NCAA Tournament games in the spring.
ASN: What is your take on the Los Angeles Galaxy adding a second division team in USL-Pro and MLS teams reportedly following suit next year?
Ramos: It’s great. Of all the thing we’ve spoken about in terms of changes (for player development), this is THE most important and numbers one step that MLS has taken. I think having a second team play in second division type league is excellent. It gets younger players consistently getting games and getting exposed playing against pros but still being part of their own pro system under their coaches who have an interest in developing them. It’s probably the best step in player development we’ve taken in years and I really hope it continues. I’ve heard that going into next season almost half the (MLS) teams are moving in that direction and I really hope it happens. It benefits our youth national team and it will benefit our senior team. You call in a younger player—U-18, U-20, U-23—and he’s so much more experienced and he develops faster and he’s readier to play at a higher level at an earlier age. The Galaxy are doing a great job and I really hope all the other teams follow suit.
ASN: Finally, what are your thoughts on Landon Donovan’s retirement and his impact on American soccer?
Ramos: For me, Landon Donovan is the best American player that ever played and the player that has made the most contributions to U.S. Soccer—on the field and off the field. Above and beyond that, he is a great human being and teammate, and a great player. I wouldn’t have enough words on the amazing influence he’s had.
Brooke Tunstall is an American Soccer Now contributing editor and ASN 100 panelist. You can follow him on Twitter.
